Really, you guys?
Jan. 27th, 2010 02:26 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
timehasa_wayI am amazed. No, really. I am. I commented a little bit on this last night, but it was like 3:00 in the morning, and I had to go to bed. But after thinking about it more? Wow.
I still love fandom as a whole, as usual. But I am starting to wonder when so many people lost the ability to be neutral about things. And I'm starting to wonder just how much people can wank over the smallest, dumbest things.
Jared and Jensen made a video to tell fans that they aren't signed up on any social networking sites. They did this after some poor (albeit stupid) fan talked to "Jensen" on Twitter and decided it would be a good idea to meet up with him, which obviously could've ended very badly. And now there's wank over it? Are you kidding me?
So, Jared and Jensen make a video trying to help fans stay safe, and people lose their minds and start bashing them and the idea of what they did. "It's not their responsibility." No, of course it isn't. But we're going to crucify them if they do take it on as their responsibility? Oh, you're right. They're concerned about their fans being duped and getting hurt. What are they thinking? I mean, why would anybody care if someone got hurt because another person lured them in with their persona?
Come on, you guys. Really? There's really nobody else sitting here thinking that it's actually a good thing, because they actually give a shit? "They didn't have to make a video. There are other ways to take care of this." Right. There are. Except, they have already announced this sort of thing at conventions, and they have already mentioned it in interviews. Jim Beaver and others have already repeated the sentiment. And someone still tried to meet a fake Jensen after talking to him on the internet. Again, are we just throwing them under the bus for being concerned about that? I mean, they don't want people getting hurt because of them. I know, right? What assholes. They're obviously full of themselves.
It's just that so many people are so bothered by this video. But I'm more bothered by the fact that even this, even the guys trying to help gets wanked about. It honestly just blows my mind.
Then we get to Clif. Okay, Clif is their bodyguard who goes on Twitter to denounce all the fakers on there. Yes, he sometimes does it in an unprofessional way. But who cares? "Oh, he's giving them a bad name, and he's being so unprofessional, it's embarrassing." First off, it's Twitter. Second...it's human? I've already said this to someone else, but, really, we all know people who would act the same way. We all have friends or have had friends that are like that, maybe some who are worse, and we'd all just be like, "lols, oh, you." It's just that nobody thinks about it that way. Or they still just take it so seriously. "No, he's representing people now! He's supposed to be better!" Really? I'm sorry, I just can't help thinking that, if we were all suddenly thrust into that world tomorrow, similar shit would go down. People are people.
I'll admit, I used to be all uptight, black and white, too. But I've become a lot more laid back, and I've just realized that, you know...people are different. People react in different ways, and it doesn't make them terrible, and maybe it doesn't even make them good. It just makes them them. And I know people who would handle this thing the exact same way or worse. But think about it. Really think about it. Because when I do? When I think about it and put myself in that situation, it's easy to picture. It's easy to think that, even if I knew the way Clif was acting on Twitter, there are times that I would laugh about it. I could easily see me in Jared or Jensen's place, getting into a car, asking Clif what he's doing, Clif telling me he's calling some poser a cocksucker, and me being like, "Pfffthahahaha, you're insane." And I know right now, everyone's going, "That would make it even worse!" No, it really wouldn't. I mean, they're people. People who just have fun, goof off, and don't take things so seriously. They're people who probably aren't thinking about things like this, that so many people are gonna get all bent out of shape over it. Again, if I really think about it and put myself in that place, I can see me doing that. Easy.
Believe it or not, sometimes it's still easy to forget that so many people are aware of what you're doing on the internet and might disapprove. You know how I know that? Because we've all already done it. It's already happened to us. Here we all were, goofing off on the internet, writing our fics, posting/taking our polls, not taking anything seriously, and just generally having what we thought was a good time. And we had no idea that there were people over at![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
spnpermanon who were talking about us and thinking we were all a bunch of assholes. We didn't even know it until someone chanced a look and pointed it out to us.
Beyond that, there's even still the fact that, here we are, with people making open anonymous hate memes, people running around publicly posting incredibly mean things about the guys' fiances for no good reason, and generally being really immature and hateful. And then we're still going to go all batshit when Clif does some slightly immature things on the internet? Really child's play compared to what's already been done among our peers. "Oh, he made an LJ name, and he's around here, and that bothers me!" Really? Like you don't know anybody who would do that in that situation? For Christ's sake, we have an anonymous hate meme going on right now. We've got hateful gossip comms, we've got hateful secret comms, we've got people lurking all over the damn place, but Clif does it, and everyone explodes. Apparently, only we're allowed to lurk and be shady. It reminds me of the one time Misha brought up slash at a con, and he was like, "You bring it up, and everyone gets all tense, like, 'No! Don't talk about it! This is just our little, private thing that we do...about you.'" (Not an exact quote.) Really, it's us being the childish, let's-talk-about-people-behind-their-backs ones. I get that the internet can feel a lot like high school, but it isn't. And, honestly? I'm really surprised that people are still pulling that whole thing of celebrities (or people representing them) having to be above human and being up on some sort of pedestal. You would think that, with celebrities having Twitter and things, and just generally being more accessible, everyone would get at least a little bit more used to the fact that they're just people. And everyone would stop this bullshit of, "But he has a reputation to uphold!"
I've always hated that. Always. Well before any of this. I hate how an actor, singer, or athlete does something a little bit wrong, and the whole world gasps and says, "Shame on them! They're supposed to be better than that! They're not setting good examples!" I don't remember who I said this about years ago, but I remember saying, "*insert name here* didn't become a *insert profession here* so he could teach your kid how to act." It's great when they are great role models. Yeah, okay, applaud them for that. But if they're not, who cares? Just accept that people are people, and be done with it. As in, you know, don't translate "Clif says rude things to fakers on Twitter and lurks on LJ," into "Clif walks around punching babies and crippling the elderly." Nothing is that bad, there's no reason to think badly of anyone, and things aren't as messed up as you think.
Everyone calm down.
I still love fandom as a whole, as usual. But I am starting to wonder when so many people lost the ability to be neutral about things. And I'm starting to wonder just how much people can wank over the smallest, dumbest things.
Jared and Jensen made a video to tell fans that they aren't signed up on any social networking sites. They did this after some poor (albeit stupid) fan talked to "Jensen" on Twitter and decided it would be a good idea to meet up with him, which obviously could've ended very badly. And now there's wank over it? Are you kidding me?
So, Jared and Jensen make a video trying to help fans stay safe, and people lose their minds and start bashing them and the idea of what they did. "It's not their responsibility." No, of course it isn't. But we're going to crucify them if they do take it on as their responsibility? Oh, you're right. They're concerned about their fans being duped and getting hurt. What are they thinking? I mean, why would anybody care if someone got hurt because another person lured them in with their persona?
Come on, you guys. Really? There's really nobody else sitting here thinking that it's actually a good thing, because they actually give a shit? "They didn't have to make a video. There are other ways to take care of this." Right. There are. Except, they have already announced this sort of thing at conventions, and they have already mentioned it in interviews. Jim Beaver and others have already repeated the sentiment. And someone still tried to meet a fake Jensen after talking to him on the internet. Again, are we just throwing them under the bus for being concerned about that? I mean, they don't want people getting hurt because of them. I know, right? What assholes. They're obviously full of themselves.
It's just that so many people are so bothered by this video. But I'm more bothered by the fact that even this, even the guys trying to help gets wanked about. It honestly just blows my mind.
Then we get to Clif. Okay, Clif is their bodyguard who goes on Twitter to denounce all the fakers on there. Yes, he sometimes does it in an unprofessional way. But who cares? "Oh, he's giving them a bad name, and he's being so unprofessional, it's embarrassing." First off, it's Twitter. Second...it's human? I've already said this to someone else, but, really, we all know people who would act the same way. We all have friends or have had friends that are like that, maybe some who are worse, and we'd all just be like, "lols, oh, you." It's just that nobody thinks about it that way. Or they still just take it so seriously. "No, he's representing people now! He's supposed to be better!" Really? I'm sorry, I just can't help thinking that, if we were all suddenly thrust into that world tomorrow, similar shit would go down. People are people.
I'll admit, I used to be all uptight, black and white, too. But I've become a lot more laid back, and I've just realized that, you know...people are different. People react in different ways, and it doesn't make them terrible, and maybe it doesn't even make them good. It just makes them them. And I know people who would handle this thing the exact same way or worse. But think about it. Really think about it. Because when I do? When I think about it and put myself in that situation, it's easy to picture. It's easy to think that, even if I knew the way Clif was acting on Twitter, there are times that I would laugh about it. I could easily see me in Jared or Jensen's place, getting into a car, asking Clif what he's doing, Clif telling me he's calling some poser a cocksucker, and me being like, "Pfffthahahaha, you're insane." And I know right now, everyone's going, "That would make it even worse!" No, it really wouldn't. I mean, they're people. People who just have fun, goof off, and don't take things so seriously. They're people who probably aren't thinking about things like this, that so many people are gonna get all bent out of shape over it. Again, if I really think about it and put myself in that place, I can see me doing that. Easy.
Believe it or not, sometimes it's still easy to forget that so many people are aware of what you're doing on the internet and might disapprove. You know how I know that? Because we've all already done it. It's already happened to us. Here we all were, goofing off on the internet, writing our fics, posting/taking our polls, not taking anything seriously, and just generally having what we thought was a good time. And we had no idea that there were people over at
spnpermanon who were talking about us and thinking we were all a bunch of assholes. We didn't even know it until someone chanced a look and pointed it out to us. Beyond that, there's even still the fact that, here we are, with people making open anonymous hate memes, people running around publicly posting incredibly mean things about the guys' fiances for no good reason, and generally being really immature and hateful. And then we're still going to go all batshit when Clif does some slightly immature things on the internet? Really child's play compared to what's already been done among our peers. "Oh, he made an LJ name, and he's around here, and that bothers me!" Really? Like you don't know anybody who would do that in that situation? For Christ's sake, we have an anonymous hate meme going on right now. We've got hateful gossip comms, we've got hateful secret comms, we've got people lurking all over the damn place, but Clif does it, and everyone explodes. Apparently, only we're allowed to lurk and be shady. It reminds me of the one time Misha brought up slash at a con, and he was like, "You bring it up, and everyone gets all tense, like, 'No! Don't talk about it! This is just our little, private thing that we do...about you.'" (Not an exact quote.) Really, it's us being the childish, let's-talk-about-people-behind-their-backs ones. I get that the internet can feel a lot like high school, but it isn't. And, honestly? I'm really surprised that people are still pulling that whole thing of celebrities (or people representing them) having to be above human and being up on some sort of pedestal. You would think that, with celebrities having Twitter and things, and just generally being more accessible, everyone would get at least a little bit more used to the fact that they're just people. And everyone would stop this bullshit of, "But he has a reputation to uphold!"
I've always hated that. Always. Well before any of this. I hate how an actor, singer, or athlete does something a little bit wrong, and the whole world gasps and says, "Shame on them! They're supposed to be better than that! They're not setting good examples!" I don't remember who I said this about years ago, but I remember saying, "*insert name here* didn't become a *insert profession here* so he could teach your kid how to act." It's great when they are great role models. Yeah, okay, applaud them for that. But if they're not, who cares? Just accept that people are people, and be done with it. As in, you know, don't translate "Clif says rude things to fakers on Twitter and lurks on LJ," into "Clif walks around punching babies and crippling the elderly." Nothing is that bad, there's no reason to think badly of anyone, and things aren't as messed up as you think.
Everyone calm down.
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no subject
Date: 2010-01-27 07:31 pm (UTC)I don't like Clif, I think him creeping around LJ and twitter and actually being close FRIENDS with a fan is a bit lame and unprofessional but whatever. I don't think it's a huge deal. I don't understand why everyone is FREAKING OUT. :|
no subject
Date: 2010-01-27 07:45 pm (UTC)It really isn't their responsibility to make this video. If there is a valid threat, then they should tell police. If they, and Jim, and Clif, continually say in person and on their own verified Twitters that they don't have personal accounts, then that's it. It's done. I don't get why they felt the need to come out and do this. I know they're doing it to be thoughtful, I do see that. But how was there not someone else involved to say 'this might not be the best avenue.'
And as far as the piece of having friends who would behave this way ... I've had assholish friends act crazy and I stepped away from them. I've actually stopped hanging out with certain friends around other friends because of their behaviors because I do believe it reflects badly on me. Shit, there've been times I've been asked to recommended a friend of a friend for a job and I say no, because I don't want their behavior to become part of my reputation. And that's all peanuts compared to what this situation is.
They are famous, and yeah, it sucks be put upon a pedestal, but it's fact, and it always has been. There can't be any surprise that they're going to be judged for putting themselves out there, on the internet, on video, no matter what is being said. The point of having publicists and PR people is to have someone who looks at all those angles and sees how it's good or bad, and I just really wish they had someone there to do that. Because if they were going to make a video, it really should've been in a different manner. One where they're not so gosh darned uncomfortable, and say better things than 'when we're busy, we let Clif speak for us,' because it just reeks of them not having a handle on their lives/careers/whatever.
Anyway, just my piece, I still love you bb, even though we disagree.
no subject
Date: 2010-01-27 07:56 pm (UTC)Well, you are right. And I'm not going anywhere...so don't worries about the bad people. Karma will kick them where it hurts. =)
And actors being more accessible really is a two-edged sword and this article of yours proves it.
no subject
Date: 2010-01-27 08:07 pm (UTC)But anyway, whatever. Like you said, these guys are real. If I were in there position, I would want to know people were saying...until I got freaked out and didn't. But the point is, they did a good thing, making sure fans stopped being idiots and started listening to common sense. Why...is that a bad thing?
Most of the reactions I saw were like mine; I immediately wanted to hide in some sand because the second hand embarrassment was so strong, omg. I love that they did this, to make sure we were safe, but I hate that they had to. I didn't see anyone actually hating on the guys for the video. I saw people getting close to it, and getting angry/sad, but they were jumped on by people who said, "yeah, it sucks, but they're kind of...cleaning up after us, and making sure we're safe," which is a good thing, right?
no subject
Date: 2010-01-27 08:09 pm (UTC)but making lj accounts, joining comms and friending certain people to "keep an eye on those wincest people" [clif's own words on some podcast he did] - NOT OKAY. and for jensen and jared to endorse that by saying "clif's our guy, listen to him" [even if they're genuinely unaware of clif's toolish behaviour] is squicky.
no subject
Date: 2010-01-27 09:13 pm (UTC)Bless you, woman.
no subject
Date: 2010-01-27 09:50 pm (UTC)Clif is just a guy, not a celebrity. He's a guy and an alpha male who is paid to protect these other guys. He may get a little overzealous with his comments but I think his heart is in the right place. Plus, the J's trust him and say that he's their guy so that's good enough for me.
no subject
Date: 2010-01-27 10:39 pm (UTC)One where they're not so gosh darned uncomfortable, and say better things than 'when we're busy, we let Clif speak for us,' because it just reeks of them not having a handle on their lives/careers/whatever.
sums up exactly how I feel about some of the fandom stuff that's been going on lately. Well said.
no subject
Date: 2010-01-28 03:36 pm (UTC)I am calm. :D
no subject
Date: 2010-01-29 12:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-01-29 01:14 pm (UTC)Yes, he sometimes does it in an unprofessional way.
OMG bb! I am SO with you on this! I mean, wtf people?? Don't we have better things to do and worse things to worry about? Like, our own lives for a change? Are we all 12? *sigh* All I keep repeating whenever we have problems in our fandom is that we should all have a little bit more humility, patience and understanding. That's really all it takes.
Maybe Clif is not handling it all as well as he thinks he does, maybe the boys could have prepared their announcement more professionally... I really don't care though. I got the message. I love them for caring enough to make that stupid vid. And I really don't like people who don't know what modesty and respect is.