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timehasa_wayThis is adorable. Once again, haters to the left.
I have this theory...that women are insane.
Okay, not really. Well, maybe.
Here's the thing. There's obviously been an uproar in fandom over the engagement/marriage thing. Now, I agree that it's out of line and childish. But I disagree that it's only made this fandom terrible, and that this fandom in particular is batshit. Because, if you've ever been in any kind of fandom before, you know that there is batshit in every fandom. I've said it a million times, but this fandom is still awesome. It's just got its allotted share of crazies.
I'm used to stuff like this happening, as sad as that is. The same thing happened in the Backstreet Boys fandom when they started getting engaged/married. There was epic hate for women that the fans obviously didn't even know, screaming, crying, anger, depression, threats. You name it, it happened. I've never understood it, and, really, it's not something you should be used to. But I wasn't exactly surprised when it happened in the Supernatural fandom. And yes, slash existed at that time in the BSB fandom, too, so this reaction isn't really enhanced by J2.
I just have to wonder, what is it that makes women do this crazy shit? Because, let's face it, you never see men obsess over hot female celebrities to the point where they wish ill on their boyfriends/husbands. Of course, you have the occasional psychopath, like the guy who shot the President to impress Jodie Foster. But those are rarities among men. I mean, I'd hate to say it, but women in fandom (any fandom) kind of make a case for the old idea doctors had back in the day that women were just hysterical basket cases. That's not to say all women in fandom are like that, but there's always a good portion of them around. And it's been going on for ages now. Women went crazy when they found out John Lennon was engaged. I mean, this is old.
It all just makes me wonder. What started all this? Why do women overreact and get so dramatic when it comes to male celebrities? Also, do they do it just because that's the reaction that's encouraged now? Brian Littrell of BSB was by far my favorite at the time of his engagement/marriage. When he got married, it was on the news, and my grandmother woke me up just to tell me. She stood back and had this air of, "...Well?" As if I was supposed to just flip the hell out. As if it was expected. People I talked to after she told me, whether family or friends, would say, "You know Brian got married, right??" And then they'd do the same thing. Sit back and look at me, as if expecting some sort of shitstorm. I just kept thinking, "What do they expect me to do?"
But an overly immature reaction was what they expected. Because other women in my family and some of my female friends would've reacted that way and did react that way with their favorite male celebrities. It's almost treated like the norm. Why is that?
I've never understood this. I still don't understand it now, with Jared and Jensen getting engaged and married. I don't understand the vicious hate for women the fans don't even know, to the point where fans can't even stand to hear their names mentioned (uh, that's pretty bad for your health). I just...don't understand any of it, really. Hell, I write J2, and I think they make for an awesome slashy couple. While I wouldn't be surprised if they ever ended up as one, and I certainly wouldn't mind it, I'm willing to accept that they're perfectly straight and are getting happily married. Because I don't know them. And they certainly look happy enough. But of course those women won't accept that. They'll say that the boys look miserable, that the girls are evil, and there's a new thing now in which the video I posted up above is part of the whole cover up of J2's gayness. Yep, there's apparently no point to that adorable video aside from them "proving" that they're straight. Because, you know, when two actors get engaged, it's obvious that no interviewer would ever take the opportunity to ask them about it and post a video online. That's balderdash!
...I kind of just wanted to say "balderdash."
Anyway, I'm just curious to know what makes women this way. I'm curious about what goes on in their brains and how much of it is encouraged by people they know and society in general. I'm just curious, because it's obviously a recurring theme. Thoughts?
I have this theory...that women are insane.
Okay, not really. Well, maybe.
Here's the thing. There's obviously been an uproar in fandom over the engagement/marriage thing. Now, I agree that it's out of line and childish. But I disagree that it's only made this fandom terrible, and that this fandom in particular is batshit. Because, if you've ever been in any kind of fandom before, you know that there is batshit in every fandom. I've said it a million times, but this fandom is still awesome. It's just got its allotted share of crazies.
I'm used to stuff like this happening, as sad as that is. The same thing happened in the Backstreet Boys fandom when they started getting engaged/married. There was epic hate for women that the fans obviously didn't even know, screaming, crying, anger, depression, threats. You name it, it happened. I've never understood it, and, really, it's not something you should be used to. But I wasn't exactly surprised when it happened in the Supernatural fandom. And yes, slash existed at that time in the BSB fandom, too, so this reaction isn't really enhanced by J2.
I just have to wonder, what is it that makes women do this crazy shit? Because, let's face it, you never see men obsess over hot female celebrities to the point where they wish ill on their boyfriends/husbands. Of course, you have the occasional psychopath, like the guy who shot the President to impress Jodie Foster. But those are rarities among men. I mean, I'd hate to say it, but women in fandom (any fandom) kind of make a case for the old idea doctors had back in the day that women were just hysterical basket cases. That's not to say all women in fandom are like that, but there's always a good portion of them around. And it's been going on for ages now. Women went crazy when they found out John Lennon was engaged. I mean, this is old.
It all just makes me wonder. What started all this? Why do women overreact and get so dramatic when it comes to male celebrities? Also, do they do it just because that's the reaction that's encouraged now? Brian Littrell of BSB was by far my favorite at the time of his engagement/marriage. When he got married, it was on the news, and my grandmother woke me up just to tell me. She stood back and had this air of, "...Well?" As if I was supposed to just flip the hell out. As if it was expected. People I talked to after she told me, whether family or friends, would say, "You know Brian got married, right??" And then they'd do the same thing. Sit back and look at me, as if expecting some sort of shitstorm. I just kept thinking, "What do they expect me to do?"
But an overly immature reaction was what they expected. Because other women in my family and some of my female friends would've reacted that way and did react that way with their favorite male celebrities. It's almost treated like the norm. Why is that?
I've never understood this. I still don't understand it now, with Jared and Jensen getting engaged and married. I don't understand the vicious hate for women the fans don't even know, to the point where fans can't even stand to hear their names mentioned (uh, that's pretty bad for your health). I just...don't understand any of it, really. Hell, I write J2, and I think they make for an awesome slashy couple. While I wouldn't be surprised if they ever ended up as one, and I certainly wouldn't mind it, I'm willing to accept that they're perfectly straight and are getting happily married. Because I don't know them. And they certainly look happy enough. But of course those women won't accept that. They'll say that the boys look miserable, that the girls are evil, and there's a new thing now in which the video I posted up above is part of the whole cover up of J2's gayness. Yep, there's apparently no point to that adorable video aside from them "proving" that they're straight. Because, you know, when two actors get engaged, it's obvious that no interviewer would ever take the opportunity to ask them about it and post a video online. That's balderdash!
...I kind of just wanted to say "balderdash."
Anyway, I'm just curious to know what makes women this way. I'm curious about what goes on in their brains and how much of it is encouraged by people they know and society in general. I'm just curious, because it's obviously a recurring theme. Thoughts?
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no subject
Date: 2010-03-06 09:58 am (UTC)You have to take the fandom stuff in context. And the context is, that women are essentially powerless, more times than not. So women are encouraged - through popular discourse (films, and especially soaps), through fairytales (that have been horribly doctored in the last two hundred years to reflect this powerlessness - ask me sometime about the *original* Red Riding Hood, a story of female cunning and bravery) - to believe in a rescuer. The Sleeping Beauty ideal. The kiss from the prince that will Take Them Away From All This.
So here's one reading of this craziness. This fantasy is rife. And encouraged, through so many narratives we see every day. And so women are enculturated to believe that they are not the proactive agents in their own fate, someone else is.
When you believe that, as all too many women do because the reality is their bosses are far more likely to be male than female, their fathers are far more likely to be in charge in the house than their mothers, the boys/men they want to date get to do the choosing or the humiliating, the fantasy of rescue from powerlessness becomes huge. And since there is no-one in their immediate life who is going to do it, so many women pin their hopes on their Daemon Lover.
So the impossibility of Jared Padalecki rescuing them is pushed to the background and they bask in the limelit dream that he will one day save them. The minute, of course, he has a real life girlfriend - or worse, gets married - that fantasy is shattered.
The other thing to bear in mind is, women have been better educated and have more rights than they've had for perhaps 900 years (they did okay in the 1100s. It's been a long, downhill slide). So no, they're not settling, thanks very much, Lori whatsyerface. So they're looking for someone who meets all their needs, and the men they find themselves surrounded by just ain't doing it for them. That's another reason why seemingly intelligent, educated women become fixated by celebrities. Onto these untouchable stars they project their longing for The Other. And they're perfectly happy to acknowledge it's a fantasy, until they're troubled by reality. And then they're disappointed in their fantasy, because they were doing so nicely, giving their Other a male who could never really compete with their own womanly virtues. Even if they were too smart to *really* think they'd ever get together (shhh! No, they never thought that. Never. Really).
Basically? I think the Western world is severely fucked up in its gender relations. I think women are still getting by far the worst of the violence, the poverty, the degradation. So women *need* fantasy more than men do. Because women *still* believe they need men and so men still have the power over them. So women find these fantasy men and latch onto them as they drown. Of course they're more invested.
I wish it weren't so. And it makes me sad to see hatred against Jared and Jensen because some of these women are *so* deeply invested in their safe fantasy that they can't bear to see the two of them actually have heterosexual relationships. While J2 exists, their fantasy exists. (I think this is where mpreg comes from, but that's for another time).
I don't know if I've offered anything worthwhile here - I can talk about this stuff so much easier!
Good on you, hon - great question.
Corby
no subject
Date: 2010-03-06 08:05 pm (UTC)You definitely have, this is an awesome comment!
It's funny that you mentioned soaps, because I thought of those soon after I posted this. They're geared towards (and so popular) among women, and they're probably one of the worst factors in this. Not just because of the powerless women who are depicted in them, but because of the ones who are hysterical and exhibit this kind of behavior. They usually end up being the most popular characters, even if they're known as villains.
I spent a lot of time at my grandparents' house when I was younger, and my grandmother watched hours upon hours of soaps. And there were plenty of women on the soaps like these women in fandoms, who thought they were meant to be with a certain male character, and when he chose someone else, they went insane. They did everything they could to get rid of the other woman and split the couple up, even if they had absolutely no right to do so. I remember when that awful, awful show Passions first started. I'd go over to a friend's house almost every day after school, and it would be on. There was this completely insane girl Theresa who swore that this guy Ethan was just perfect for her, and when he decided to be more than friends with someone other than her, Theresa lost what was left of her mind. She did some massively crazy things to try to make Ethan hers, and it was so far out of line. (Granted, the whole show was nuts, but that's another story.) And when I said that Theresa was insane? My friend immediately responded with, "But her and Ethan are meant to be!"
...What?
The worst part is that (I think) Theresa and Ethan did end up together at some point. I could be wrong, because I didn't exactly follow the show much. But I am fairly certain of it. if I remember correctly, they ended up having a kid together. Which made so many Passions fangirls endlessly happy. And that is so damn sad.
I could probably delve into how the female friends that I had who watched that show and were all for Theresa went on to fail spectacularly in their love lives, but I won't. Just know that it involved chasing after guys already in relationships (with other friends, even) and believing everything those guys told them, until their hearts were completely broken and their common sense when it came to relationships was pretty much nonexistent. Not that I can blame that all on Passions, but it's funny to see that correlation there.
This all reminds me of your previous posts about women on Supernatural, and how the complaints about them in fandom are pretty unwarranted. There have been more strong women on Supernatural than most shows that are popular among women. I think we're lucky to have it.
This also got me thinking about how there are certain things geared towards men that feature strong women. And how I have male friends that prefer to see strong women in what they watch or read. I'm not sure how prevalent that is in society as a whole. But it's pretty strange if we've ended up in a situation where women are immersed in this world of weak characters, and men are looking at just the opposite.
But I have a feeling that this is a conversation that could go on forever, so I'll stop myself now. This comment is already pretty lengthy. But thank you for your input! It's very interesting and insightful! :)
no subject
Date: 2010-03-06 11:21 pm (UTC)A world that foists rescue fantasies on women, disempowers them, abuses them, kills them, should not be surprised if women react with fantasies of their own.
That's interesting, your comments about the soap you watched. I find them to be iniquitous in any number of ways. I remember watching Days years ago, and a father sees his daughter come into the room, all dolled up, and he says, "You're so beautiful. I'm so proud of you." And this scene was repeated by other fathers in other scenes over the course of time I watched it. The message unmistakably was that to be valued and praised by the important men in your life, you had to be beautiful - something that no woman can ever guarantee or really do much about. How vulnerable that makes us, if we buy into that message! And of course there's an enormous commercial machine helping us to buy into it every day.